How did Swan know it was Luther?

King · Post by **King** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 6:07 pm

great point about luther ranchgal

ajaxman · Post by **ajaxman** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 2:42 am

Fox may not have seen Luther pull the trigger. But he did see that Luther had a gun, i mean luther pointed straight at Fox. Way i always saw it, Fox was smart enough to realize that the man with the gun must have been the one to use it. Because Luther realized that Fox saw him and was about to shoot Fox. Luther being no dunce realized that if he blamed the Warriors before Fox got the word out than no one would believe the Warriors and would only attack them.

I always thought that Fox told The gang that the Rogues did it. I mean they were on the subway and there were moments where they could take it easy long enough to think things through. We just don't see it. I figured this was why Swan knew that the Rogues were responsible.

The warriors just didn't know that the Rogues blamed them for it.

Cowboy79 · Post by **Cowboy79** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 5:30 pm

I think Swan knew that Luther killed Cyrus because they were the only gang that came on the Warriors turf. They were the ones that were stalking the Warriors when they got to Coney Island.

prozium · Post by **prozium** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 8:15 pm

I personally think that Swan naturally assuming that The Rogues did is a bit farfetched. Keep in mind every gang in the whole city was going out of their way to look for The Warriors, what makes The Rogues so special? The fact that they came onto the beach? The Furies go through a long chase, The Punks' leader follows Swan for quite a while.

I think Fox told them at some point. Makes more sense to me.

Ranchgal · Post by **Ranchgal** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 12:51 am

The relevance to the beach is HOME TURF
NO other gang pursued them beyond their own territory---the gangs that had contact with the Warriors had it because the Warriors came into that gang's turf-it was strictly luck of the route the guys took that allowed some of the other gangs to find them---no one besides the Rogues and Riffs were actually LOOKING anywhere for the WArriors.

And the fact that the Rogues came onto Warrior turf FIRST is significant to realizations of the truth.

ajaxman · Post by **ajaxman** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 11:08 pm

Actually the fact the Rogues followed them onto their turf is rather insignificant I think. The Riffs, came onto the Warriors turf (ostensibly to get to the Rogues) but i think the fact that the Rogues crossed the turf line into Coney wasn't what tipped Swan that the Rogues were responsible.

I think Fox saw Luther with the gun (probably knew who Luther was as he was some sort of leader in the Rogues), figured him to be the guy who shot Cyrus and told the rest of the Warriors when they first got on the train and were able to calm down.

Jim1972UK · Post by **Jim1972UK** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 3:54 am

Actually I disagree completely, I do not think The Fox told the others about Cyrus, if he had then why was Rembrandt, Vermin and Cochise so suprised when the Lizzies accused them of being responsible for Cyrus's shooting?

I think maybe when Swan asks "Why'd you do it" he was actually asking him "Did you do it" but being the War Chief was being diplomatic in his questions, and was testing to see if Luther would admit that theywere to blame, the fact thay they had invaded their turf must of been a pointer towards that they could of been responsible and Swan's most likely thinking that their invasion was due to this.

ajaxman · Post by **ajaxman** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:23 pm

Jim1972UK wrote:Actually I disagree completely, I do not think The Fox told the others about Cyrus, if he had then why was Rembrandt, Vermin and Cochise so suprised when the Lizzies accused them of being responsible for Cyrus's shooting?

The reason they were surprised is because no one knew that the Rogues blamed the Warriors for the killing. Fox saw Luther do it but scrammed when the cops came. Fox wasn't around to hear Luther blame the Warriors. Cleon was the only one who knew Luther blamed the Warriors and he got "japped" before he could get away. Therefore, none of the Warriors knew that Luther put the blame on them. So it would make perfect sense for Fox to tell them that Luther shot Cyrus and for the Warriors be surprised they were being blamed. Because no one was around to know what went down.

Good point about Swan maybe being diplomatic. I could see that. Swan did show some sign of diplomacy. However, he was diplomatic when he was walking through another gang's turf. I don't think Swan would be as willing to be so diplomatic since it was the Rogues on the Warriors turf. I think he asked Luther "Why did you do it" because he wanted to know before he threw down on Luther.

swan12 · Post by **swan12** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 12:11 am

I really think it was the fox who told the gang but its so stupid that they didnt show him tellin them

FreerideR-NL · Post by **FreerideR-NL** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:06 pm

ajaxman wrote: Fox may not have seen Luther pull the trigger. But he did see that Luther had a gun, i mean luther pointed straight at Fox. Way i always saw it, Fox was smart enough to realize that the man with the gun must have been the one to use it. Because Luther realized that Fox saw him and was about to shoot Fox. Luther being no dunce realized that if he blamed the Warriors before Fox got the word out than no one would believe the Warriors and would only attack them.

I always thought that Fox told The gang that the Rogues did it. I mean they were on the subway and there were moments where they could take it easy long enough to think things through. We just don't see it. I figured this was why Swan knew that the Rogues were responsible.

The warriors just didn't know that the Rogues blamed them for it.

Yeah...I agree with this one !
Fox was the 'look-out' for the gang...as we can see on the deleted scenes on this website

for sure.
So he HAS to report that to the leader.
I mean there was a gunshot at the moment everybody was looking at cyrus....then after a short moment of silence...panic ! (very cool part of the movie I think)
Fox was looking in Luthor's direction...and Luthor pointed the gun at him..
Police lights blinded Luthor so Fox had a chance to escape...
Cleon directed his soldiers to a hide out and went on his own to the place where Cyrus was brought..
The rest of the Warriors didn't see him get wasted by the Riffs.
So...I also think there was time enough for Fox to tell his brothers about what he did see...and it was his duty to do so

The first time the Warriors really talked about being suspects themself was after the visit at Lizzysplace...thanks to Rembrand.
From the moment the Warriors all united and had a nice rumble with the Punks...well...then the puzzle was completed..
Again there was time enough to inform each other about the whole situation...and return to Coney to finish business

Well...I'm going to watch the 'normal' edition on dvd this night again to check it again !
This week I MUST have the special edition.

Music Man Snow · Post by **Music Man Snow** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:12 pm

It's not too far-fetched that Fox would tell them that Luther shot Cyrus, but if he had, there would've been no reason to leave it out of the movie. So yeah... It didn't happen.

FreerideR-NL · Post by **FreerideR-NL** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:22 pm

I think it did happen...
If you put in all the details in the movie it would be a movie of a few hours...(would be cool tough)
What I can remember is that most movie duration at that time (1979) was about 90 minutes..
That's too short to put so much in it.
These days you can watch movies taking 2 or 3 hours

Some deleted scenes would fit in very well but they took them out anyway.
That's the way I think about the movie...enough stuff to puzzle about..
At the end the complete story is pretty clear to me.
But you may have another opinion about the plot...I enjoy to read what other people here think about it..
Gives me new ways to watch the show again

Music Man Snow · Post by **Music Man Snow** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:52 pm

That could've been the case, but it wasn't in the deleted scenes, and on top of that it wasn't even in the original script. To add to that, they were more worried about getting home than they were about Cyrus getting wasted, and rightfully so if you know just how far Coney Island is from the top of the Bronx and how many gangs are inbetween. Who gives a damn about Cyrus when you got that many people trying to come down on you? It doesn't seem like a topic that would've come up until they find out that they're wanted, and by that time Fox was long dead.

A better question is... Why didn't that train stop?

Post by **Lion** » Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:24 pm

I am sure there was a time when Fox told Swan, it just wasn't in the movie!

Mugen92 · Post by **Mugen92** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 2:34 am

at first i didnt think that fox told swan that luther did it but ajaxman convinced me with his theory that fox just saw luther shoot cyrus not him accusing the warriors of wasting cyrus and he told the rest of the warriors off camera and when the lizzies told rem,vermin, and cochise that they killed cyrus they could of thought that it must of been the rogues that accused them of wasting cyrus.....but i could be wrong :-k :-k :-k :-k

Man that is a great question man :-k :-k :-k :-k

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