Is Fox a dork?

Harley · Post by **Harley** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 2:44 am

Fox probably didn't relax as easily as the other guys did, he's always on guard being the scout and all. In the opening scenes when they're goofing off on the train you see Fox just standing there and glancing around nervously for a second. He was probably like that a lot and the othres didn't think of him as too fun, but respected him for his role in the group.

emissary · Post by **emissary** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 2:52 am

I don't think they respected him that much. For example, "A train would help, unless you want to go up there and get japped on an open platform."
"Bullshit man! There aint nobody on the street."

Ranchgal · Post by **Ranchgal** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 5:07 am

OH PLEASE!!!
these kids had no visible means of support, no idea of what they wanted to do, and where they wanted to go.
Swan knew he wanted OUT of the neighborhood--long before he met Mercy, she was just one more add on.
Mercy told him she wanted to get out too, and do/have something real NOW--and that let him have empathy with her, they identified themselves alittle more.
BUt really----one kiss that was more sarcastic than romantic---she was trying to ensnare him and he knew it and didn't go for it!!

They met, ran, fought, fought others and were together all of say 8 hours---and you are talking romantic??? Lusty sex is one thing---falling love was something else, and neither one was close to that---and neither one looked to me to be after more than lusty sex, and not on a permanent basis either one.

REAL, in my opinion: They possibly had a brief affair---found out who each was really, found out that except for poverty and limited resourses they didn't really have much in common, and were gone out of each others lives with in 6 months. She wasn't what he wanted----and what he wanted, she didn't really want, she wanted different and more. one day he woke up and she was no where to be found and he was relieved. And they both got on with their lives.

swift eyed wolf · Post by **swift eyed wolf** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 1:42 pm

hmmm.

fox as an accountant you say? the thing with gangs like the warriors is that people wouldn't just join to go around fighting...they simply want to be part of something. have an identity. thus, you could get people who look out of place (in terms of having a fighters look) in a gang. plus, for a situation like going to a meeting (one-off) you need a scout and memory man.

swan and mercy have romance...this is clear at the end when they talk about taking off together. also, walking down the beach together, slightly hanging back from the rest of the gang...couple thing to do.

Wolverine · Post by **Wolverine** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 9:57 pm

Well, I'm just saying it's obvious they have a bond.....but there really isn't anything in the movie that shows that they are an obvious couple. It's up to the viewer with the open ending.

To me, Swan seemed too good looking and too cool for Mercy. He was nice to her and warmed up to her at the end, but I don't think he was interested in her as a girlfriend. She's not in the movie to be Swans's girl.

Ranchgal · Post by **Ranchgal** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 11:05 pm

That is true, sort of one of those---sort through your options endings.
And I agree that Mercy's main role was NOT a love interest, but to create and influence the conflict betweent them and the Orphans.
the rest was just incidental, she came along looking for action and possibilities.

StevenFallonNYC · Post by **StevenFallonNYC** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 1:26 am

I don't think The Fox was a dork. If you say the actor, you probably mean by the way he looked? Hey, it was 1978 (time of filming). As far as his hair goes, in 1978 he probably had more radical hair than most. No one thinks of Ajax as a dork, and he sure ain't, but look at his hair for instance, especially on the subway at 96th street before they start running from the cops...a nice 1978 parted-on-the-side feathered-back special at Mr. Scissors. But he's no dork! The Fox looks pretty cool IMO.

vermin76 · Post by **vermin76** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 12:17 pm

i say anyone who puts any member of the warriors down is unimaginative and has no true concept of any type of interesting conversation.

Post by **The Fox** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 12:21 pm

vermin76 wrote:i say anyone who puts any member of the warriors down is unimaginative and has no true concept of any type of interesting conversation.

AMEN...........

Coney Island Baby · Post by **Coney Island Baby** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 9:51 pm

You don't want anyone else to get Swan do you Ranchgal?

Just kidding.

It's true that Mercy initially serves to create conflict between the Warriors and the Orphans, but that coulda been done in any number of ways, without Mercy. If that was her main role in the film, there'd be no reason to bring her along on the rest of the journey. I think that was just a way of introducing her.

In the book, the gang meet a girl, like Mercy, hanging with another gang and they rape her, and afterwards Lunkface says 'we should've taken her with us'. I think Walter Hill decided that in the film it would be a good idea if they did take her with them, so they could add a prominent female character.

Whether or not you see Mercy as the 'love interest' sorta depends on whether you think her and Swan were an item at the end. I think they were, that's why I tend to think of her as Swan's love interest. That doesn't mean to say she's not her own person, she's obviously a strong, feisty character. It doesn't mean she can't serve other purposes either. I just think one of her main functions in the film is to form a relationship with Swan, and help him look at his life and what he wants from the future. I guess whether you think that relationship is just a bond or like me you think it's a romance depends on which way you choose to look at it.

Coney Island Baby · Post by **Coney Island Baby** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 10:19 pm

Good work moderators.

Wolverine · Post by **Wolverine** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 11:18 pm

Well said Coney baby, I agree. That's one of those questions you ask yourself during the film. Why does Mercy keep following these guys? Which is eventually answered in the tunnel scene and such. She's just looking for something better, something exciting.

I agree, Hill probably wanted a prominent female. Plus, she plays a big role in the 'meaning' of it all.

LATEM · Post by **LATEM** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:15 pm

For me The Fox brought knowledge and leadership into the group. While it can be argued that Snowball is as knowlegeable as Fox (we know he is the one who identifies the Turnbull ACs) nevertheless he lacks seniority. Notice how Swan scouts him around. Without Swan, Fox was the natural/obvious leader.

It seems to me that as some of you have already noted, The Fox was to play a major role just like the script indicates. Whatever problems went on between him and Hill changed the original role he was to play as. One thing that has always bugged me is the fact that his name does not show on the cast. That was just too unfair.

swift eyed wolf · Post by **swift eyed wolf** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:45 pm

a mature person wouldn't think fox was a dork, instead full of knowledge and useful.

however, many of the gang members would think of him as a bit of a dork. the fox himself is a bit defensive about it...he insults others in terms of lack of intelligence on their behalf.

e.g.

a train would help

so i'd say yes he is a dork in view of his gang but no in relation to those who understand his purpose (like swan).