why beleive the rogues?

Cleon759 · Post by **Cleon759** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 2:07 am

i dont get why any1 would beleive the rouges on sayin cleon shot cyrus because doesnt rogue mean like theif

Plus cleon had nowhere to put the gun (if he had 1) but luther had a bunch of pockets...

so what do you guys thing?

Ranchgal · Post by **Ranchgal** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:02 am

rogue means scoundrel.
Not necessarily thief--mainly someone always in trouble for doing whatever.
though being a thief would quaify, so would someone who breaks windows, or paints graffiti, is disorderly--just about anything that would be either against the law or society.

I think they believed him because he tried to take down Cleon, giving him credibility-acting to right a wrong.
AND the fact that no one really knew what happened, and any scapegoat will do in a mob scene of chaos.
they were looking for someone to blame, and they got someone to blame.

haterist · Post by **haterist** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 2:56 pm

i found this strange as well.
this is the part i don't get, the fox saw him shoot but how did luther know he was a warrior? its not like he had a warriors patch across his chest. and luther never sees him from behind.

that being said, it would've made more sense had he blamed the fox and riffs wasted him....cleon was much cooler.
but then the arguement would be, if the fox was about to get wasted, why didn't he tell the riffs it was luther? the same would apply if it were cleon who saw luther shoot cyrus, he probably say, "he shot cyrus, why don't you check that fools pockets!"

vermin76 · Post by **vermin76** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 6:53 pm

any gang that sees their leader gunned down and the nearest person to the scene of the crime is bound to get hammered.its like an instantaneous trigger action.

Cowboy79 · Post by **Cowboy79** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 8:33 pm

I've always said in my mind why would you listen to Luther ? No one would go see the guy he killed but maybe it's because Cleon really didn't have an explination and The Rouges say that they saw him shoot Cyrus.

Ramsey · Post by **Ramsey** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 9:10 pm

Just one of many questions Walter Hill was unable to answer. Sort of like why the hell did Cleon have to go over and see Cyrus? But I'm wondering why everyone started believing the Rogues. Maybe its because they just wanted someone to have the blame.

ajaxman · Post by **ajaxman** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 2:28 am

In a high tension situation when you're blood is pumping and the crap has hit the fan, you're not thinking straight. It's more than obvious to us that Luther maybe shouldn't of been listened to, but in the heat of the moment when you're a big ball of chaos and yyou're running on emotion and your hearts pumping you don't know how your going to react.

The Riffs were in that situation, someone just shot their leader, they had no idea if he was alive or dead, they didn't know what to do and their emotions are running high at that point. ALl of a sudden someone says hey that guy did it. You're not really thinking about anything other than it's this guys fault. The Riffs believing Luther shouldn't be judged by regular standards because honestly none of the Riffs were in their right frame of minds anyway.

knowledge · Post by **knowledge** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 5:10 am

In the moment of immediate chaos and outbreak, people had no time to actually look and pay attention to where the shot came from. Even though, people behind Luther could have seen it. Gangs wouldve said, nah man, I saw Luther do it. They wouldve been associated with The Warriors and snuffed out as well.

The Warriors werent apart of the Riffs' network anyway, The prime candidates next to The Warriors to get a 'spot' was The Rogues or any other gang. Luther just made his gangs' chances better to be up top with Cyrus and The Riffs. That way, his dranged ass could proclaim President as soon as he had a chance to knock Cyrus' hustle.

ajaxman · Post by **ajaxman** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 5:53 am

Least we forget, a member of the Rogues backed up Luther's call that the Warriors did it. So to the Riffs at the time it would have been like someone corroborrated the story.

Manson-Cryptorchild · Post by **Manson-Cryptorchild** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 7:48 pm

It's true how you said that Cleon had no where to put the gun, because last time I watched it, I was thinking the same thing, but I agree with what ajaxman said about Cropsey backing Luther up about the shooting. The Riffs just must have not thought about who could have possibly done it, because they were mad that their loyal leader got killed...

ZombiePunk · Post by **ZombiePunk** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 9:47 pm

In my opinion, the riff's wanted someone to blame. Corpsey backed Luther up and im not suprised they killed cleon.

Oddball · Post by **Oddball** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:06 am

Oh, how I wish Cleon would've said something to the Riffs before he got wrecked. I guess there were time constraints though.

Post by **SoldierHeavyMuscle** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:19 am

haterist wrote:this is the part i don't get, the fox saw him shoot but how did luther know he was a warrior? its not like he had a warriors patch across his chest. and luther never sees him from behind.
that being said, it would've made more sense had he blamed the fox and riffs wasted him....cleon was much cooler.

now see, in my own mind, (lol) i always thought the warriors vest's were pretty distinguishable!!
with the brown leather, and the kinda "tribal" trim!

and i always though, luther saw a dude standing in the middle of the riff's, over cyrus' dead body, in a brown leather vest, like the dude that saw him blast cyrus!!!

and thought to himself, hmm, dude's THERE!!
i'll blame him, and the warriors!!
and as far as blaming cleon, and not the dude that actually saw him do it, (fox) that's cleon's fault, i'm sorry to say!!
he JUST had to see the fallen legend!
ya know, the one, and only!

wolverine_95 · Post by **wolverine_95** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 6:56 pm

The Rogues were believed because no one else was able to counter the accusation. The Fox was visibly frozen from shock when Luther pointed the gun at him, so he didn't think to say anything. Cleon was going to say he didn't do it, but Luther rushed him before he could finish his statement. Cleon sent the other Warriors running away from Cyrus so they weren't around to say or do anything. None of the other gangs said anything because they didn't see anything, they were all watching Cyrus in aw, and they were all too busy getting away from the cops.

So, Cropsey agreeing with Luther and Luther's zeal in attacking Cleon plus the chaos of the situation convinced The Riffs that the Rogues were right. Moreover, what reason do they have to disbelieve The Rogues? For all we know they might have a decent rep, regardless of how treacherous they are. We know from the "Who Was Luther Talking To" debate that he seems to be an adept manipulator so he could have made a few moves prior to the meeting to increase his chances of being believed.

Craigster_2006 · Post by **Craigster_2006** » Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:33 am

I was surprised that the riffs believed Luther and were so quick to condemn Cleon to death. Luther lunging at Cleon was probably designed to make the riffs think luther was overcome with anger at seeing Cyrus shot by the warriors .
Cleon`s reply was not a good one and he could easily have said `where is my gun then ???`