Who's closer?

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Kujo_87
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Who's closer?

Post by Kujo_87 »

I couldn't find anything like this in search.

When Rockstar Toronto was making the game, they said they crafted its pre-movie story based on personality cues they got from the movie. I'm not referencing the game but it seems to me that what they got from the movie was that Ajax and Snow were probably better friends with each other than any of the other nine that were at the meeting.

It always seemed to me though that Ajax was closer to Cochise. In the deleted intro, when Cleon is giving the briefing, Ajax and Cochise give eachother dap when he tells them their roles and when Cleon tells them not to flex without direct orders he looks at both of them, suggesting they probably cuase alot of trouble when together. Also, the way they act when Cleon looks at them looks to me like they're disappointed with him, like maybe they think the whole thing with the meeting is making him lose some of the edge that probably gained their respect in the first place. 

Then there's other small stuff like during the conversations at the Stillwell platform in the intro. When Cochise talks about Cyrus not having "to take any s***" Ajax says "Aw,  f*** him". We all know Ajax will shoot a fellow Warrior a smart-ass comment just as fast as he would anyone else, but he doesn't insult Cochise at all,even though Cochise is serious about the meeting. But just awhile earlier, it only takes one little joke from Vermin before Ajax is questioning his sexuality :lol:

Then in the graveyard scene, The way Cochise and Ajax talk about Cleon's possible arrest seems to emphasize a shared disappointment in him or lack of respect, while the others defend his decisions whole-heartedly. And when Snow stands behind Ajax when he starts causing touble, he gives him kind of an annoyed look, and you can even see him glance toward Swan like he's waiting for an order to shut Ajax up. 

And when Cochise says "We better stick together" it sounds to me like he only says that becuase he understands how serious their situation is and that Swan is better suited than Ajax to handle it, not becuase he doesn't think Ajax wouldn't be better suited for other situations or wouldn't stand with him in another conflict. Then after the leadership problem is "resolved", Cochise is the only one to stay behind and get Ajax to relax and follow the group, while the others don't seem to mind the idea of leaving him there.

The way Swan says "make yer move" always made me think he might've been waiting to for the chance to scrap with Ajax since way before the meeting, but maybe just respected Cleon to much while he was there to start a fight. I think there's even a part in the original script when they're hanging out at Coney and Swan puts a knife to his throat.

Also, before the Turnbull chase, Ajax and Cochise are the only ones in agreement about not waiting for the train before heading to the platform. They both also get into trouble with women, although Cochise seems to know that rape isn't necessary when a woman is willing :lol: 

In, the park when they decide to leave Ajax, As Swan, Snow, and Cowboy walk away you can see Snow smile, and it always seemed to me like he's amused by what he knows Ajax is getting himself into, but unlike Cowboy, doesn't really seem to care until he stops Swan. This also most likely means that Cowboy was also the only other of the nine who was actually friends with Ajax, especially since Ajax refuses to leave him behind while the Furies are chasing them, even asking him if he's sure he can't make it before they turn to fight.

When Snow stops Cowboy from trying to save Ajax he also has this kind of look that seems to say he's disapointed that they lost a good brawler instead of the "I just lost a friend" look that Cowboy has.

When they get to Union Sq. Cowboy's giving Cochise a sympathetic look the whole time even before Snow tells them Ajax's fate while not even batting an eye.  Even Vermin and Remrandt look to Cochise seeming to suggest he's going to be affected the most by the news. It even takes him awhile to get over the shock and follow the others before he walks away and shakes his head.

Crap...sorry guys, I honestly didn't mean to make it this long, but what do you think?
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Vermin16
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Re: Who's closer?

Post by Vermin16 »

do your fingers hurt after all that? :D
Good ideas though. I see where you are coming from and I agree

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Re: Who's closer?

Post by KillerMime »

Let me wrap my brain around that post. :shock:

I generally agree with what you said.  You can tell Cochise and Ajax are close at the deleted opening, when Cleon says they are soldier heavy muscle.  Then later on, I think after the Turnbull scrap, Cochise says "In an hour its CI the big Coney!"  And Ajax slaps his fist. Those two were definitely the most alike of the warriors.  They really liked to fight.
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Re: Who's closer?

Post by Daddy Cool »

Kujo_87 wrote: When Rockstar Toronto was making the game, they said they crafted its pre-movie story based on personality cues they got from the movie. I'm not referencing the game but it seems to me that what they got from the movie was that Ajax and Snow were probably better friends with each other than any of the other nine that were at the meeting.
Rockstar Toronto changed Snows personality,voice, and underated his fightin skills which made me mad.  :evil:In the movie,even though he was quiet,I think Snow was close to and cared about all the Warriors.But i agree what u said bout Cochise an Ajax bein the best friens.

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Re: Who's closer?

Post by anto »

Yeah, that's one thing i always wonder about in the game; why isn't Cochise with Ajax in that 'heavy muscle' level instead of Snow? It clearly says that Cochise and Ajax are the 'heavy muscle' in the deleted opening scene... :?
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Re: Who's closer?

Post by Kujo_87 »

Sorry for not responding guys (if you wanted me to). I actualy forgot about this thread until MiddleMan07 reminded me in the site forum. Another thing that occured to me happened in the deleted scene where the Warriors are walking to the meeting.
Ajax says "This stinks", and Cochise responds "Man, nobody cares what you like". Cochise sounds pretty serious to me, like the other Warriors really didn't take Ajax seriously in anything besides brawling. And once again Cochise is the only one who doesn't catch a smart-ass reply :lol:
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Re: Who's closer?

Post by Daddy Cool »

Kujo_87 wrote: Sorry for not responding guys (if you wanted me to). I actualy forgot about this thread until MiddleMan07 reminded me in the site forum. Another thing that occured to me happened in the deleted scene where the Warriors are walking to the meeting.
Ajax says "This stinks", and Cochise responds "Man, nobody cares what you like". Cochise sounds pretty serious to me, like the other Warriors really didn't take Ajax seriously in anything besides brawling. And once again Cochise is the only one who doesn't catch a smart-ass reply :lol:
that was Cleon 8)

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Re: Who's closer?

Post by Kujo_87 »

Daddy Cool wrote:
Kujo_87 wrote: Sorry for not responding guys (if you wanted me to). I actualy forgot about this thread until MiddleMan07 reminded me in the site forum. Another thing that occured to me happened in the deleted scene where the Warriors are walking to the meeting.
Ajax says "This stinks", and Cochise responds "Man, nobody cares what you like". Cochise sounds pretty serious to me, like the other Warriors really didn't take Ajax seriously in anything besides brawling. And once again Cochise is the only one who doesn't catch a smart-ass reply :lol:
that was Cleon 8)
I thought so at first too, but if u listen close you can hear that its Cochise. Cleon is the one who says "Quiet" afterwards
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Re: Who's closer?

Post by King »

Pure genius man. You shouldve been hired to help the guys at Rockstar out with the prequel part of the game :D You are higly observant and have put lots of time and thought into this topic. As well as lots of watching and focusing on the movie i bet lol ;) I agree with what you say to. i think Cochise and Ajax did have great on screen chemsitry as friends since like in the deleted scene they did seem to be a muscle duo that got each others back. Nice job man! :D

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Re: Who's closer?

Post by Daddy Cool »

yea u right, i had to send a emissary(thats how u spell it) this afternoon to make sure :lol:

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Re: Who's closer?

Post by emissary »

Kujo_87 wrote: I couldn't find anything like this in search.

When Rockstar Toronto was making the game, they said they crafted its pre-movie story based on personality cues they got from the movie. I'm not referencing the game but it seems to me that what they got from the movie was that Ajax and Snow were probably better friends with each other than any of the other nine that were at the meeting.

It always seemed to me though that Ajax was closer to Cochise. In the deleted intro, when Cleon is giving the briefing, Ajax and Cochise give eachother dap when he tells them their roles and when Cleon tells them not to flex without direct orders he looks at both of them, suggesting they probably cuase alot of trouble when together. Also, the way they act when Cleon looks at them looks to me like they're disappointed with him, like maybe they think the whole thing with the meeting is making him lose some of the edge that probably gained their respect in the first place. 

Then there's other small stuff like during the conversations at the Stillwell platform in the intro. When Cochise talks about Cyrus not having "to take any s***" Ajax says "Aw,  f*** him". We all know Ajax will shoot a fellow Warrior a smart-ass comment just as fast as he would anyone else, but he doesn't insult Cochise at all,even though Cochise is serious about the meeting. But just awhile earlier, it only takes one little joke from Vermin before Ajax is questioning his sexuality :lol:

Then in the graveyard scene, The way Cochise and Ajax talk about Cleon's possible arrest seems to emphasize a shared disappointment in him or lack of respect, while the others defend his decisions whole-heartedly. And when Snow stands behind Ajax when he starts causing touble, he gives him kind of an annoyed look, and you can even see him glance toward Swan like he's waiting for an order to shut Ajax up. 

And when Cochise says "We better stick together" it sounds to me like he only says that becuase he understands how serious their situation is and that Swan is better suited than Ajax to handle it, not becuase he doesn't think Ajax wouldn't be better suited for other situations or wouldn't stand with him in another conflict. Then after the leadership problem is "resolved", Cochise is the only one to stay behind and get Ajax to relax and follow the group, while the others don't seem to mind the idea of leaving him there.

The way Swan says "make yer move" always made me think he might've been waiting to for the chance to scrap with Ajax since way before the meeting, but maybe just respected Cleon to much while he was there to start a fight. I think there's even a part in the original script when they're hanging out at Coney and Swan puts a knife to his throat.

Also, before the Turnbull chase, Ajax and Cochise are the only ones in agreement about not waiting for the train before heading to the platform. They both also get into trouble with women, although Cochise seems to know that rape isn't necessary when a woman is willing :lol: 

In, the park when they decide to leave Ajax, As Swan, Snow, and Cowboy walk away you can see Snow smile, and it always seemed to me like he's amused by what he knows Ajax is getting himself into, but unlike Cowboy, doesn't really seem to care until he stops Swan. This also most likely means that Cowboy was also the only other of the nine who was actually friends with Ajax, especially since Ajax refuses to leave him behind while the Furies are chasing them, even asking him if he's sure he can't make it before they turn to fight.

When Snow stops Cowboy from trying to save Ajax he also has this kind of look that seems to say he's disapointed that they lost a good brawler instead of the "I just lost a friend" look that Cowboy has.

When they get to Union Sq. Cowboy's giving Cochise a sympathetic look the whole time even before Snow tells them Ajax's fate while not even batting an eye.  Even Vermin and Remrandt look to Cochise seeming to suggest he's going to be affected the most by the news. It even takes him awhile to get over the shock and follow the others before he walks away and shakes his head.

Crap...sorry guys, I honestly didn't mean to make it this long, but what do you think?
I agree with you that Ajax was probably closest to Cochise.  In fact, it is Ajax who says "What about Vermin and Cochise" before the Furies chase.

I don't see the graveyard scene the same way with regard to Snow.  Snow was not going to touch Ajax on order or anything.  I see his posture there as on guard for the unexpected.

I also disagree about Snow smiling about Ajax at the park.  Snow is Warchief/Warlord material.

All in all, a quality post.  I'm with you about Ajax and Cochise 100%
I completely disagree about Snow.  But that is cool. 
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Re: Who's closer?

Post by Kujo_87 »

I agree with you that Ajax was probably closest to Cochise.  In fact, it is Ajax who says "What about Vermin and Cochise" before the Furies chase.

I don't see the graveyard scene the same way with regard to Snow.  Snow was not going to touch Ajax on order or anything.   I see his posture there as on guard for the unexpected.

I also disagree about Snow smiling about Ajax at the park.  Snow is Warchief/Warlord material.

All in all, a quality post.   I'm with you about Ajax and Cochise 100%
I completely disagree about Snow.  But that is cool.
You know, I just re-read my post and I really made Snow seem like a jerk, huh? :lol: I didn't mean to seeing as how he is my favorite Warrior, and he pretty much is Swan's Warchief or, if Swan did leave, the most likely choice for Warlord. About the park scene, I didn't mean he was amused by the thought of Ajax being cuaght , I meant to say he might've been smiling about his stuborness and was just expecting him to catch up.

But the graveyard scene, I figured with the cops spreading their search out beyond the conclave grounds, Snow could've been ready to stand against Ajax for waisting precious time with the leadership squabble.

Edit: I thought it was Cowboy who says "What about Vermin and Cochise, huh?" and Ajax who says "That's far enough already!" when Swan sees the stairs to the street?
Last edited by Kujo_87 on Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Who's closer?

Post by emissary »

You know, I've listened to that 5 second section where somebody says "what about Vermin and Cochise" a thousand times.  I used to say it was Cowboy, now I think it's Ajax because of the grunting voice used toward the end of "Cochise."  That is a tough call to make.
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Re: Who's closer?

Post by vermin76 »

despite the agreements and slight disagreements this topic has made interesting reading

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Re: Who's closer?

Post by Kujo_87 »

I just thought about something else. Whenever you see the Warriors running, it's always Ajax who is holding the door for everyone else. Like when he and Swan break through the fence to escape the conclave? he waits on the other side for everyone, even Swan, to make it out before taking off. then after they they blow up that car and hual from the Orphans, Ajax holds the door for the dudes behind him when they reach the stairs to the el platform. Then, there's the thing with him watching out for Cowboy after he gets knocked out by "Yellow Face".

Now I know Ajax definately had genuine concern for his crew, but these things, especially after the leadership squabble, made think me he could've also been trying to make himself look better for a spot as the leader. And when he challenged Swan he says "I want to be Warlord" and not just Warchief. This also made him seem kinda power hungry to me, becuase at the time, the Warriors thought Cleon was still alive and had just been nabbed by the fuzz, which makes it look like Ajax was trying to take power out from under him, IMO.

Any comments?
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