Cochise's Vest on Ebay!

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Re: Cochise's Vest on Ebay!

Postby gangbanger » Thu Mar 06, 2014 1:01 pm

Ah, sorry! Case of mistaken identity ;O) This was "the guy" I was talking about:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181333533156? ... 1423.l2649
[/quote]

This vest is sooooo clearly a fake that I cant believe anyone could fall for it. Damn shame somebody got duped. It makes it harder for people who actually have original pieces to convince the general public that they are original. Why is it always cochese vests that seem to be fakes and not any of the other gang members?
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Re: Cochise's Vest on Ebay!

Postby Ninth Delegate » Thu Mar 06, 2014 1:27 pm

Back when profiles in history was selling your vest, they stated in the description that the patches were a copy.
There's valid points made for both sides of the debate, so we may never 100% know for sure.
The close up picture which PIH used of your vest, made the rocker seem clean and newer looking; plus has differences to the 2 other cochise vests that are in private hands.
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Re: Cochise's Vest on Ebay!

Postby Cochese » Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:03 pm

gangbanger wrote:
[align=][align=][glow][size=200[glow]]I happen to be "the guy" you all are talking about.
In my defense I'd like to say when it was posted on Ebay 2 years ago I had it set up that any offer under an amount of $8000 would get an automated dismissal so I never even received certain offers that were under my minimum.
Also as far as Craig (shroom) goes... Stupid is as Stupid does. I'm not difficult I'm simply unyielding. Some people apparently don't like this quality.
We could not agree on a price and that was the end of that. Finally I'd just like to invite all critics to re-view my Youtube video in which I explain that I'm not sure if the patches are real or not and WHY I believe they are. I have documented proof from the original consigner and person who bought the two vests from Universal wardrobe dept that the Cochese vest was purchased with original patches. So I ask you all in this here glass house not to through stones before educating yourself on the facts and not just on hearsay.
CAN YOU DIG IT?????????? :twisted: 8-)[/glow] [/size][/glow]
[/align][/align]


Could you tell us which thread you're referring to, when you say, that you "...happen to be "the guy" we all are talking about?
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Re: Cochise's Vest on Ebay!

Postby LIER ONE » Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:45 pm

Ninth Delegate wrote:Back when profiles in history was selling your vest, they stated in the description that the patches were a copy.
There's valid points made for both sides of the debate, so we may never 100% know for sure.
The close up picture which PIH used of your vest, made the rocker seem clean and newer looking; plus has differences to the 2 other cochise vests that are in private hands.


Even in this past DEC auction it says in the book that the patches are copies. So either you were lied to or mistaken. I would think that they would want to say that they are originals so it would fetch more $$. I see it didn't sell for what you wanted. What was the highest bid you got on it?
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Re: Cochise's Vest on Ebay!

Postby gangbanger » Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:08 pm

Ninth Delegate wrote:Back when profiles in history was selling your vest, they stated in the description that the patches were a copy.
There's valid points made for both sides of the debate, so we may never 100% know for sure.
The close up picture which PIH used of your vest, made the rocker seem clean and newer looking; plus has differences to the 2 other cochise vests that are in private hands.


Each of the three times (PIH) put this vest up for auction they used the exact same wording/text to describe it As well as the same photo. So the question becomes why back in 2006 when they listed it for the first time for the consigner (The Golden Closet) who claims it was purchased by them with the Original patches on it, why was that not in the description? It may have simply been a case of misunderstanding between (PIH) & (Golden Closet) being that they Golden Closet Did have a the Plato vest with repro patches made for it and that the two vests were purchased together.
I cant get a 100% definitive answer from the golden closet owner who claims to be too busy and never has gotten back to me.
initially when asked she claimed unequivocally it had original patches but when I later pressed the issue and pointed out that why then did (PIH) describe it as having "true" copies of the patches her memory seemed to fail and she needed to "Check her files" when she wouldn't be sooo busy. That was 2 yrs ago. I haven't attempted another inquiry since.
Not sure if it's my eyes or my mind but when I look at the photos I've seen of the other two vests in private hands, I don't see a difference in the patches, not at all.
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Re: Cochise's Vest on Ebay!

Postby gangbanger » Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:09 pm

Cochese wrote:
gangbanger wrote:
[align=][align=][glow][size=200[glow]]I happen to be "the guy" you all are talking about.
In my defense I'd like to say when it was posted on Ebay 2 years ago I had it set up that any offer under an amount of $8000 would get an automated dismissal so I never even received certain offers that were under my minimum.
Also as far as Craig (shroom) goes... Stupid is as Stupid does. I'm not difficult I'm simply unyielding. Some people apparently don't like this quality.
We could not agree on a price and that was the end of that. Finally I'd just like to invite all critics to re-view my Youtube video in which I explain that I'm not sure if the patches are real or not and WHY I believe they are. I have documented proof from the original consigner and person who bought the two vests from Universal wardrobe dept that the Cochese vest was purchased with original patches. So I ask you all in this here glass house not to through stones before educating yourself on the facts and not just on hearsay.
CAN YOU DIG IT?????????? :twisted: 8-)[/glow] [/size][/glow]
[/align][/align]


Could you tell us which thread you're referring to, when you say, that you "...happen to be "the guy" we all are talking about?


This one of course!
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Re: Cochise's Vest on Ebay!

Postby gangbanger » Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:13 pm

Even in this past DEC auction it says in the book that the patches are copies. So either you were lied to or mistaken. I would think that they would want to say that they are originals so it would fetch more $$. I see it didn't sell for what you wanted. What was the highest bid you got on it?[/quote]

No bids on it this past Dec.
I can speculate as to why but that would strictly be speculation.
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Re: Cochise's Vest on Ebay!

Postby LIER ONE » Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:30 pm

Please speculate.
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Re: Cochise's Vest on Ebay!

Postby Cochese » Sat Mar 08, 2014 12:22 am

gangbanger wrote:
Cochese wrote:
gangbanger wrote:
[align=][align=][glow][size=200[glow]]I happen to be "the guy" you all are talking about.
In my defense I'd like to say when it was posted on Ebay 2 years ago I had it set up that any offer under an amount of $8000 would get an automated dismissal so I never even received certain offers that were under my minimum.
Also as far as Craig (shroom) goes... Stupid is as Stupid does. I'm not difficult I'm simply unyielding. Some people apparently don't like this quality.
We could not agree on a price and that was the end of that. Finally I'd just like to invite all critics to re-view my Youtube video in which I explain that I'm not sure if the patches are real or not and WHY I believe they are. I have documented proof from the original consigner and person who bought the two vests from Universal wardrobe dept that the Cochese vest was purchased with original patches. So I ask you all in this here glass house not to through stones before educating yourself on the facts and not just on hearsay.
CAN YOU DIG IT?????????? :twisted: 8-)[/glow] [/size][/glow]
[/align][/align]


Could you tell us which thread you're referring to, when you say, that you "...happen to be "the guy" we all are talking about?


This one of course!


Okay, I'm missing something here. Never mind. Well, at least the vest itself appears to be authentic. We know of one poor bugger who flew David Harris from New York to his home city, just to buy a replica vest AND patch set for a mere US$5.5K! So count yourself lucky!
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Re: Cochise's Vest on Ebay!

Postby Ninth Delegate » Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:05 pm

Gangbanger: I'll attempt at getting some comparable photos up tomorrow, to explain what i mean with the differences. No issue with the warbird; its the rocker.
While we're on the subject of this cochise vest, who are you in relation to Save Hollywood props?
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Re: Cochise's Vest on Ebay!

Postby Cochese » Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:51 pm

Ninth Delegate wrote:Gangbanger: I'll attempt at getting some comparable photos up tomorrow, to explain what i mean with the differences. No issue with the warbird; its the rocker.
While we're on the subject of this cochise vest, who are you in relation to Save Hollywood props?


Why, that vest look familiar? ;)
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Re: Cochise's Vest on Ebay!

Postby Ninth Delegate » Sun Mar 09, 2014 6:59 pm

Here's my amalgamated image of all the known patches on original vests.

Image

The top image is of gangbanger's vest. Note the thinner lettering and no black outline around each letter.

The 2nd image is of the reproduction patch on the plato vest. In my eyes, it matches gangbangers patch with the spacing and slim lettering with no black outline.

The 3rd is from the cochise vest owned by the guitarist from Creed

The 4th is Cochese's cochise vest

The 5th is the swan vest

And just to round it up, the production crew jacket.


My belief is the top 2 images match because they were reproduced at the same time. We know golden closet had more than 1 patch made. I am aware that different patches were used throughout filming; hence the different spacing between lettering (most noticeable if you check Fox), but the black outlining seems to be consistent throughout. I find it questionable as to why paramount had a vest in tact, when patches were removed from all the other vests in their possession, including the rogues. A separate rogues patch has surfaced in the past, in which the owner says he got direct from a friend who works at paramount.

This is just something to add to the debate. You're all entitled to your own opinions. I still have a shadow of doubt cast over all this.
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Re: Cochise's Vest on Ebay!

Postby Cochese » Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:45 pm

Thank ND! Very enlightening!

What's worrying me is that the spacing on Mark Tremonti's and Swan's Rocker patches are different to the spacing on both my vest and the cast & crew jacket - do you have any theories on that?

Also, did we ever find-out where Swan's vest ended-up? Not to mention his trews and David's lower half costume? BTW, are the vests below the only ones we know of that have come-up for sale?
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Re: Cochise's Vest on Ebay!

Postby Ninth Delegate » Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:59 pm

Theories: It's possible back in 78 the patches were made in batches, or maybe various staff in the costume dept made a certain amount each and differences accured between each persons finished product?
In the film, fox's rocker changes from when he gets on the train to when he's with the orphans (the R and S touching) Maybe by then, he was wearing the second batch?
No idea who has swans boots and pants, or Davids lower costume. I thought they might have surfaced on yourprops.com. David still has at least 1 vest that I know of. He sold arm bands while on a signing in Australia and 1 of the members on here bought his belt.
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Re: Cochise's Vest on Ebay!

Postby Cochese » Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:09 pm

Ninth Delegate wrote:Here's my amalgamated image of all the known patches on original vests.

Image

The top image is of gangbanger's vest. Note the thinner lettering and no black outline around each letter.

The 2nd image is of the reproduction patch on the plato vest. In my eyes, it matches gangbangers patch with the spacing and slim lettering with no black outline.

The 3rd is from the cochise vest owned by the guitarist from Creed

The 4th is Cochese's cochise vest

The 5th is the swan vest

And just to round it up, the production crew jacket.


My belief is the top 2 images match because they were reproduced at the same time. We know golden closet had more than 1 patch made. I am aware that different patches were used throughout filming; hence the different spacing between lettering (most noticeable if you check Fox), but the black outlining seems to be consistent throughout. I find it questionable as to why paramount had a vest in tact, when patches were removed from all the other vests in their possession, including the rogues. A separate rogues patch has surfaced in the past, in which the owner says he got direct from a friend who works at paramount.

This is just something to add to the debate. You're all entitled to your own opinions. I still have a shadow of doubt cast over all this.


Can we compare them to this one, please?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/THE-WARRIORS- ... true&rt=nc
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